Flagged PVP

[Kizo 41]

The shinobi world is a dangerous one - but the shinobi world is one that is dangerous even without conflict between rival shinobi. If the game has any field which has been heavily contested, it is PVP enforcement. People have toyed around with the idea of removing forced PVP for those sub lvl 30 or 40, but I think the issue goes deeper than that. There are faction divides beyond rival shinobi groups that splinter an already small community further for their existence.

PVE players who only want to do PVE content are measured up against PVPers because PVPers need everyone in their raid group to be down to fend off an attack at any time, which leads to frustration and quitting. Leaf players don't want to play with rogue players and vise versa. New players get drive by-ed. Roleplayers are stuck roleplaying in the handful of safezones which exists because the overworld is so furiously open PVP that they can't leave designated safe areas.

The current main argument against flagged PVP, as we know, is contesting bosses - but as we've seen with MM being in a safezone for the last 2 months, while this causes player frustration, the frustration stems from the fact that the boss isn't meant to be safezoned and people are abusing proximity to Konoha to do so. If people could opt in/out of PVP, people might spit about how another player is cowardly for not wanting to do full PVP boss runs, but that would be the end of it.

Recent overworld updates in relation to patrols have already increased the danger of the world. Leaf-based guards patrol roads near towns, while packs of wolves and giant snakes require vigilance while maneuvering around. The world, at an increasing rate, feels alive. Things are happening beyond just players moving around and doing their thing. I honestly think that if PVP flag was added and that its introduction patch was dedicated to improving the overworld, fixing the going rogue systems, the entire playerbase (regardless of affiliation and playstyle preferences) would be better for it.

Implementation:

I understand that implementing flagged PVP would take time and have its own system complications, but seeing as the game has managed to add open PVP, I'm hoping that it wouldn't be too complicated.

My recommendation for implementation would be that turning War Mode on or off would mean that someone is flagged or not flagged for at least an hour or two. On another MMO that I played, flagging for PVP was something that had a daily cooldown that reset on daily reset time (on SS that would be 3am server, if I'm not mistaken). That would be brutal, but it could work too.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Kizo

[donaldwasright 2]

Context: Writing this thread after getting wiped in pvp by a tiny percentage of the server? This isn't a big problem.

 

That bias aside, I think Albion Online is the only open world pvp system that works. They have

Blue zones - completely safe PvE zones

Yellow zones - players can flag up to kill people for a bit of money

Red zones - players can flag up and kill people, and take more money/items from them

Black zones - everyone is flagged for pvp at all times

 

Essentially rn the blue zone is the leaf village, everything else is black. I'm ok with it this way.

 

But if we HAD to do something, which I don't think we do.. please don't go too far.

 

Runescape limits pvp by levels, we cannot replicate the system here afaik but we can provide an opt out function for players under level 40, or maybe even lower. People only become semi viable in pvp at level 30+ due to hit rate, stats, getting a couple of spells by this point, etc.

 

I don't see how a large group is against pvp now that it's happening to them. Think we just need to learn and progress from this.  everyone enjoys pvp when it suits them, so no need to make rash, reactionary actions that will limit the server in the future.

[Kizo 41]

I'm really not sure where you get the idea that I'm speaking for all rogue players: this is exactly the sort of suggestion that hardcore open world PVPers hate, so players like Okinawa and likely Hibro aren't interested in this sort of thing at all. On the other hand, I dabble in most aspects of the game, and I've always been more interested in rated instanced arenas and battlegrounds than world PVP. I'm generally uninterested in raiding and PVE, but I love teaching other players stuff.

There are a couple of really enthusiastic SS players that I'd love to teach and can't because my presence is an active hazard to them. If I'm there, I can't teach new players: I'm setting them up for failure. Being rogue is already a huge enough impediment to everything else that I enjoy doing: I have to make alts to show them stuff, but those alts don't have my mains power level, so I have to hustle 3 times as hard and either level some secret alt that people won't kill, or play two characters intermittently. RPing in most locations is impossible because the guards are overpowered, and the overworld is, well, we saw how that went. That's 2 of the activities that I enjoy, smashed.

Players who only want to PVE and not participate in PVP at all can't do anything in this game. If they won't fend off or participate in PVP situations, they simply won't be invited to raid, because they're teammates that can't be relied on when everyone is needed to be on the same page for raids to be successful. So there's another swath of the playerbase that doesn't feel like they can play the game the way they want, and if people can't do the things that they find fun, why would they play?

[poopeater 1]

(Since it was revealed that the motivation for Warmode is Player Retention, a lot of what I say is more so a fix to that rather than appeasing the pacifist player. Growth is the goal)

 

All your problems can be solved without ironically destroying a big reason why some people play. If people can't do the things that they find fun, why would they play?

 

You want somewhere where you can teach people? Make the Kono arena safe zone and able to be dueled in. (Possible?) (this would also pseudo fix honor trading which is fucking disgusting bullshit btw completely devalues any open world pvp disgusting yuck yuck)

 

You cant make alts because they will inevitably be weak? Speed up progression a lot, in my opinion everyone should stat-wise be around the same level whilst loot should be the min-max factor, not an endless carrot on a stick. This makes it impossible to catch up, ever.

 

You don't want to play multiple characters intermittently? Has anyone even considered how bad dailies actually are? What is it a 1 hour mandatory every day? It's a video game not work, If people can't do the things that they find fun, why would they play? Maybe do some sort of monthly CE and JE - and have people progress that way. Would be much more unique and interesting for everyone imo (all I'm asking for here is a genuine re-examine of other potential ways to obtain Chuunin and Jounin, because what we have now simply isn't healthy or appetizing.) Dailies are usually added to essentially "force" people to play a game, when your game doesn't have anything more interesting to offer. Ask just about anybody - no one gets enjoyment out of doing them over and over and over, I certainly can't understand it. It would be way, way, way more interesting to actually have bosses with very diverse and rewarding loot tables with different rarities and I believe the focus should be shifted from dailies to that. Which would be a much more active way of obtaining meaningful strength, as well as being more in line with the latest updates (many more xp drops)

 

If you're claiming inability to RP due to outside interference: if you get PvP killed or otherwise PvP kill someone else -- use that for your RP. Don't just ignore it because it doesn't fit your vision, I don't understand why people do that shit. Isn't it more fun to RP in unpredictable scenarios? Be creative, don't just ignore what is happening around you. Let the world shape your character, like it does everyone else. But ye guards are bullshit and rogue locations are still hostile.

 

There is a genuine claim for people who ONLY want to participate in PvE and NOT in PvP, but you will without a doubt inadvertently alienate an entire group of players with PvP flagging, because you can still PvE without being Flagged, but you cannot PvP without Flagging. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Mandatory flagging is the best of both worlds in my opinion. Granted killing low levels is a genuine concern and has been for a while. I've raised this concern multiple times in-game and I was always met with a haha we are rogues haha thats why cUz We ArE rOgUeS - no you are just assholes. Not coming at you here, cuz I have no clue wtf you do ingame at all (except die, constantly, of course. (noob)) I believe Warmode should be a thing, but only for 1-30 or 1-39, because if existing players drive away new players because they have to kill them for the sake of it, something should be done. Growth and Perception is everything and right now both are at risk from poor in-game behavior.

 

Your last paragraph is confusing. I don't believe this happens, or at least I've never personally seen it happen. This is a personal issue for the player and I don't see how it has anything to do with flagging. If you're in the middle of being PvP'd and you refuse to play the game because "you dont want to participate in PvP" I don't even understand why that person is playing lol, I think this is pretty far fetched. Maybe dying is too punishing because there is only 1 spirit healer (in kono) perhaps adding more spirit healers should be considered? I dunno, I don't have the answer. Regardless big boss groups are a big issue right now. Because they are extremely easy targets, low levels shouldn't be at bosses. period. They simply don't belong there and often they get caught in the crossfire as it pertains to PvP due to their low health and the untargeted nature of spells. Nobody is trying to kill them, it just happens.

-

More so, being able to form huge raids is exactly how we ended up with this 1 big group. I would suggest disabling the ability to create raids entirely and scale everything to a party of 5 (honestly only Kama and Dagahara would need to be scaled, but should still require a lot of power and skill) that way a lot of this cross-fire wouldn't happen and everything wouldn't take place in a 1 hour window at server reset where everyone is a target. The PvE content would also more accurately fit the playerbase. It might be slightly off topic here so I apologize but I truly believe this ties into the root of the issue here. There is a big monopoly going on and it is extremely bad for the health of the game. Players joining endgame activities on a lvl 10 character is extremely bad because it completely messes up the curve of progression, a lot of what drives people to go through all of the leveling is the endgame participation and if you're already participating in endgame at low levels that drive quickly disappears, I believe these issues are a big problem in player retention as well as general social environmental practice.

 

Regardless, open dialogue is always good. And I wish devs started more of them when it comes to adding in-game features. 

 

If people can't do the things that they find fun, why would they play?

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by poopeater